Rei Lalo

1:30Welcome and intro

ChristianneRei Lalo, thank you so much for coming on.

ReiThank you for having me. It's good to be here.

4:00Triathlon war stories

ChristianneI just did an Olympic-distance triathlon. I'd been retired for years, and I forgot how much I hate two things: going from the swim to the bike, because I'm so disoriented, and the last mile of the run, when my legs were bricks.

ReiWhen you get out of the water, especially open water in the ocean, it takes you two minutes to realize where you are.

ChristianneWhat's your least favorite part?

ReiCycling, and it's the most important one. I love swimming, and I grew up running my whole life. Cycling I always had to be good at, but I didn't enjoy it. Especially in New York, with all the logistics: getting on the highway, finding a peloton to ride with, riding back into the city.

ChristianneI did most of my training on a Peloton, which felt like cheating. And packing a bike into a bike box, completely disassembling it, was more than I bargained for. One of the wheels on my box was broken, so I got everyone's attention.

ReiEveryone in the airport hates triathletes before race day, that's for sure.

7:00Growing up in Tel Aviv, and feeling slow

ChristianneYou're a triathlete, an immigrant, and an entrepreneur who built TRIHARD into something real. But the more I learn about you, the more I realize how much heart you have. You're not only someone's boss and CEO. You're someone's son, brother, friend and teammate. I want to start in high school. You've said you weren't a top student, that you struggled to sit down and do the reading and writing, and that you have ADHD. When you felt slow at school, was that something you believed internally, or something other people told you?

ReiI definitely felt it internally. I was diagnosed with ADHD in fourth grade, quite severe. I'd be sitting in class and a bird would fly past the window, and I'd be focused on the bird, or on someone moving a table. Anything but the teacher. And when I did try to focus, I realized it took me a long time to digest information. I thought maybe I just wasn't interested. After the diagnosis, I understood I had to find different ways to learn than sitting in class like everyone else.

ChristianneYour mom is a partner at a law firm. What was it like to be her son and not love school?

ReiBoth my parents are very open-minded and supportive. My siblings and I took very different paths, and they're a hundred percent behind all of us. When I went with my mom to meet teachers about my performance, she was always fighting back. Wait, what did you do? Did you try talking to him directly, helping him focus? We were a team. She was never frustrated with me or criticizing me. She understood early that I needed to be treated differently. I went to different therapies, and I realized that when I learn through movement, not just sitting and listening, I understand much better. She was always finding ways to make it work.

That did a lot for me. I moved here from Israel at 22, by myself, to the other side of the world, seven hours' time difference. Knowing I had that support behind me, a mom and dad and good friends I could always come back to, gave me the confidence to make that move. I was very lucky.

And outside of class, I was very active. Once I realized being the best student wasn't in the cards, I became very good at everything else. I played semi-professional soccer. I was a guide in the Scouts for many years. I organized parties for people my age, and I had side hustles, like producing merchandise for the Scouts. That's when I started getting signals that entrepreneurship and doing things outside the box is where I thrive.

12:00The spinal injury that changed everything

ChristianneAt seventeen, you had a spine injury. Walk me through the day you found out you needed surgery.

ReiI was preparing for the military. My leg started going numb almost every time I moved, and I felt a vibration in my feet. I went to therapy, and they said, there's something stronger going on here, go to an orthopedist. The MRI showed a disc had slipped out and was pressing on my nerves. At some point I couldn't even lift my foot. The doctor told me I could keep walking and live my life with physiotherapy, but I probably wouldn't be able to run or do sports at the level I wanted. That's when I knew I had to have the surgery. I had spine surgery at eighteen, and then a long recovery.

ChristianneWhat was it like to go from semi-pro soccer, Mr. Athletics, to a doctor telling you that if you ever want to run again, you need to take extreme measures?

ReiIt was very scary. Going back to how I felt in school, sports were where I built my confidence, where I socialized, even where I formed business relationships. All of a sudden I might lose that. What would my life look like if I couldn't run?

After the surgery, it took a long time to get back to high-intensity sport. I felt more anxious and less confident. When you don't do those workouts day in and day out, you accumulate anger. I was more impatient. And you start thinking, I should have done this or that, what did I do wrong.

Then I started getting back to it slowly. I went to the pool every day and literally walked in the pool for two hours, to strengthen my core and get my mobility back after the surgery, when everything was so stiff. Then I started swimming again, and I became a really good swimmer. I went back to the doctor and asked, what's next? He said, get on the bike. That went well. And eventually I went back to running, which was the happiest moment, realizing I was back.

18:00The recovery year: depression, isolation, the pool

ChristianneYou had the surgery in your senior year of high school. What was it like going to graduation parties on crutches while your friends were having the time of their lives?

ReiOn one hand, the scariest part was behind me. Spine surgery can go either way. But I couldn't stand for more than about ten minutes. At prom, they set up four couches around the venue so I could move between them. At Scouts summer camp, they put three or four inflatables around our camp so I could still be there. I was very involved in the Scouts, and I couldn't do everything I'd worked for.

ChristianneWere you glad they made accommodations, or did you want them to stop giving you attention?

ReiI liked it, because it came from wanting me to be part of it. Some friends made fun of me and came to lie down next to me. I was okay with it. I realized it was temporary. It didn't look like I'd be disabled for life. It was a serious injury at a sensitive time.

ChristianneDid you ever grieve that all your training might be for nothing?

ReiI had some grief, but more from doubting whether I could get back to the same level. When it hurts to walk for five minutes, you wonder, maybe I'll run again, but can I really go all the way? It took me a few years to feel comfortable running. Even my form was different. Your mind remembers there was a serious injury, almost a trauma. You don't fully flex your hip, you're stiffer, you're holding your core to make sure nothing else happens.

ChristianneYou mentioned depression during the recovery year. What did it look like at seventeen?

ReiA strong feeling of missing out. People flying abroad on vacation, the prom I couldn't really go to. I felt I was missing big life events at that age.

ChristianneWho knew what you were going through?

ReiMy best friend, Jonathan. He's going to officiate my wedding. He was with me all the time. He'd come pick me up for dinner at his place, cooked by his parents, because we were seventeen. My parents too, even though they were at work. But the person I remember most is him.

ChristianneWhat was it like being in the pool alone for hours?

ReiI actually started liking it. I'm competitive, and I'm very disciplined. When I realize something is helping me, I get passionate about it, and I'm willing to put all the time in. Even with a small injury, I do the physiotherapy properly, and so many people don't. I didn't need to do two hours a day, but two was better than one. Even alone, in winter, in an outdoor pool, I enjoyed the challenge. At one point I thought about becoming a physical therapist, because I'd experienced how much it can change your life. Then I saw all the studying behind it, and I gave up.

25:00The climb back and his first triathlon

ChristianneIn those long sessions in the pool, just you and your body, did anything you believed about yourself change?

ReiI realized I'm very self-disciplined. In school, I knew what I had to do, sit, listen, take the exam, get good grades, and it was so hard for me. It hurt my confidence. Why is it so easy for everyone else? I had to prepare for many more hours than anyone else before an exam, and I thought maybe I wasn't disciplined enough, maybe I was lazy. But in recovery I saw I was more disciplined than many people I know. It gave me confidence that if I really want something, I can get it done, step by step. I didn't have to get my confidence only from school.

ChristianneI'm surprised you say you weren't a confident kid.

ReiSocially I was. I was good friends with the cool kids and with the nerdier kids, and I connected well with both. But deep inside, for many years, I believed I wasn't as intelligent as the people around me, because in high school, intelligence is measured by grades, and everyone has to learn the same things in the same way. I really don't believe every kid can learn the same thing the same way.

ChristianneTell me what's happening in this photo.

ReiThat was my first triathlon, the Tel Aviv Triathlon, in 2015. Once I recovered, I said, I'm good at swimming, I'm confident enough on the bike, I know I'm good at running. Let's double down and become a triathlete. I came second in my age group. It was the first official race I'd ever done, and I realized I could go all the way and actually compete. My sister and my dad were there. I was very proud.

ChristianneWhere are you in the birth order?

ReiI'm the middle child. My sister is three years older, and my brother is six years younger.

ChristianneYou joined a local training team in Israel.

ReiBy then I'd finished recovering. I loved triathlon because I get bored doing one thing, and your week is completely varied: running, cycling, swimming, strength, mobility. When you go longer, to half Ironman and Ironman, you have to think about nutrition. In Israel I did races where you bike up a mountain and it's cold, then run down to where it's hot, so you have to think about what to wear. It's a complex sport. And it's hard to cycle a hundred miles alone on a Saturday morning, so I joined a team. It was a great decision, and it's related to what I'm doing today.

32:00Leaving Israel on a seven-week ticket

ChristianneYou've written that optimizing for comfort and safety is the surest way to mediocrity. Where did that contempt for safety come from?

ReiRight after high school, I knew I didn't want to go to university, get a degree, join a company as an employee and climb the ladder. I got through school eventually, and I got a good diploma, but I didn't thrive. I want to excel in the things I do.

It was the early days of social media, 2013, 2014, before "influencer" was a term. People around me in Tel Aviv had ten thousand followers, which already counted as an influencer. I saw that when they posted about a restaurant or a new shirt, people went to check it out. There was power in it. So I gathered fifty or sixty of those people I knew personally and signed them to exclusive contracts with me, which wouldn't work now, but back then nobody knew it had commercial value. Then I went to the big ad agencies and brands in Israel and said, if you have campaigns to distribute, we're a new channel for you. It was knocking on doors when nobody knew how to measure it. American Eagle Israel started working with us, and then the biggest food and beverage company. I was twenty.

I partnered with a more technical guy who built websites, and we started managing social media for small and medium businesses. We became an ad agency focused on younger audiences, with an office in the city center and five employees, both of us making great salaries. Three years in, at 22, we thought: it's great, but we don't want to do this for the rest of our lives. So we handed our clients to another agency. He moved to Berlin, and I moved to New York.

ChristianneYour friends were going to college, and you had this blossoming business. How did you think about your paths?

ReiI knew I'd followed my gut and it was the right decision. But when you build your own business, nothing is stable. It can end any day. In Israel, after the army, a lot of people travel for six months to a year, to South America or India. I never did that, because I had to stay and build the business. That was one of the compromises I made very early.

38:00The McCann internship and the wedding that changed his career

ChristianneBy your early twenties you're running your agency in Tel Aviv, making real money, and you leave it all behind to fly to New York alone. There's a story about the woman at McCann who got you an internship at her own wedding.

ReiI have US citizenship because my mom was born in Seattle, so I always thought I had to use it somehow. My English was very bad, and it bothered me. I couldn't communicate with most of the world. If I wanted to do big things, I had to unlock that skill. So I came to New York for two months for an English course. In my mind, I was already thinking about staying for an internship.

I tried to speak only English all day. I didn't speak Hebrew, even with Israeli friends here. School ended around noon or one, so I started going to see five-bedroom apartments with real estate agents. Completely irrelevant for me. But it's a free English class. Forty-five minutes per showing, asking tons of questions, learning terms. I'd see four or five a day. I told them my family was moving here after me.

After two months, my English still wasn't close to good enough. I can't learn English from a classroom. I have to be in the streets, hear the same word three times in different contexts, make mistakes. That's the only way I've learned anything: hands-on. And I knew I couldn't pass job interviews with American companies yet.

A friend sent me an article from an Israeli newspaper about the chief digital officer of McCann Tel Aviv, who'd been appointed to start a global innovation team at McCann in New York. McCann is one of the biggest ad agencies in the world. I thought, I have to find this woman. I found mutual connections on LinkedIn, and one of them introduced us. I told her I'd had a small agency in Israel and was always interested in doing marketing differently, which is innovation, even though I didn't really understand what innovation meant in her role.

She said, let's meet for coffee. Then she completely ghosted me for two weeks. Every single day I followed up on WhatsApp, email and LinkedIn. I wouldn't do that now. But when you're young, ignorance works in your favor. You just go for it. At some point she said, I appreciate the persistence, but I just relocated from Israel, I'm pregnant, I'm getting married soon. Now we're very good friends. She completely changed my life, and she knows I owe her a lot.

On one of her visits to New York, she met me for a quick coffee. I said, I really want to stay. What can we do? She said, I'm the only person on this brand-new team. I can't justify a budget for someone new yet. So I asked, it's a budget thing? She said yes. So I said, don't worry about it. I'll work for free. I'd saved money from the agency, so I could go a few months without a salary.

She said, I'm getting married next week, and the chief digital officer, my boss, is coming to the wedding. Let me see. She came back after the wedding and texted me. She'd talked to him on the dance floor: there's this guy who won't leave me alone, and he's willing to work for free. He said, there's a summer internship program starting in two weeks. He can join it.

It was a program of about fifty people, and I was the fifty-first, literally the plus-one, joining last minute. At orientation everyone introduced themselves: Ivy League schools, communications and marketing degrees. Then it gets to me, in completely broken English, with no college education.

We had to say two truths and a lie. I was so stressed I was sweating. One of my lies was, I have a snack as a pet. Everyone said, what? You mean a snake? Yes, thanks. That was the icebreaker. Everyone laughed, and I got along with everyone after that.

Every intern got a project for two months. Mine was to build a database of all the startups McCann worked with around the world: what each startup does, where it's based, and case studies of how offices used it, like a Paris office using a VR company for a L'Oréal campaign. I asked to bring in a vendor from Israel, since I could manage them in Hebrew, it would be half the price, and Israel has a very strong tech scene. They approved it, and I submitted the project a week before the program ended. I was one of five people who got a full-time offer. I joined the global innovation team as a strategist and worked there for three and a half years. I had the best time.

ChristianneWhat was it like to know you got one of five spots?

ReiI came in so determined. Maybe I shouldn't say this, but there were three-hour lunch breaks with free Shake Shack and events. I never showed up. I was at my desk delivering on the project. I knew I was there to stay. Like skipping the travel after the army, I compromised on the fun things to do the thing. I felt I wanted it more than they did. So I was proud, but I also felt I deserved it. I think I expected it.

ChristianneI'm sure the old-timers respected your hustle.

ReiHalf the group respected it, and half thought I was snobby for not coming. That's okay.

45:00Building TRIHARD

ChristianneAt McCann, you start working on TRIHARD on nights and weekends, and three years later you quit to go full time. How much risk did you take before you realized this could be a real business?

ReiAt McCann there was a clear trajectory. I'd been promoted twice in three years. I knew where I could get to in ten years: high salaries, work I really enjoyed. But staying felt like giving up, for me. I understand people who take that route, but I knew it wasn't right for me.

This was the direct-to-consumer boomWarby Parker, Casper. My job at McCann was working with the heads of innovation at Nestlé, L'Oréal and Coca-Cola to help them understand the new brands disrupting their categories online, and whether to acquire them, partner with them, or build similar products. I loved the idea that you could now create niche consumer products from scratch. So I asked myself, if I created my own brand, what would it be?

I'd grown up doing sports, and suddenly there was SoulCycle and Rumble, HIIT classes everywhere, Lululemon, sports nutrition, Peloton. Active lifestyle had become really sexy and created whole new companies. But in personal care, there was nothing. No brand owned personal care for sports and athletes.

So I went to my old coach from the triathlon team in Israel. He'd done well financially, and he said, I'll write the first check and support you. And he said, talk to this other guy from our group, who owns a personal care manufacturing facility with an R&D lab. I flew to Israel, and the three of us sat down. I gave the manufacturer equity in exchange for the first batch of inventory and all the R&D, so I didn't need much capital up front. I put in no more than fifty thousand dollars myself. The bigger risk was starting from scratch with no college degree, especially in the US. If it didn't work and I had to go back to being an employee, my resume wouldn't shine unless they saw my personality.

The name TRIHARD came from the triathlon team I had in Israel. Later we brought in a branding agency as we grew, but the core of the brand is what we designed at the beginning.

55:00Raising the first $600K with a Word document

ChristianneSo you got your first check with just a concept. You hadn't even decided whether it would be about chlorine or sweat.

ReiI think he got a great deal, a lot more equity than I'd give now. But I think they believed in the person trying to lead it, and saw I was passionate. Looking back at how I sold it, I just talked about all the other companies disrupting toothpaste and sandals and said, guys, there's something here, and we have to do it in our own space. I sold them the big picture and the dream. Nothing concrete. Sometimes ignorance works in your favor.

ChristianneNo slide deck?

ReiNo. A Word document with hyperlinks to those companies, how much they raised, and how much they sold for. That's it.

ChristianneYou've raised almost five million dollars now. Was there ever a round you were worried wouldn't close?

ReiEvery round, especially the last couple of years. When you start, everyone says, build more first, show more customers, more repeat customers. Then when you have the data, you're measured against benchmarks: lifetime value to customer acquisition cost, how long until they get their money back. So the first rounds are actually the easiest. When you're selling a dream, nobody can say no to the numbers. Someone told me once that waiting for the party is more fun than the party itself. That's the first round.

Our manufacturing partner has a sister company in Orlando, Florida, that makes everything. All the R&D and formulas are ours, our own IP, and they're our subcontractor. Since we're the biggest brand in the space for them, it's almost an extension of our team.

1:05:00The hot days and cold days of being a founder

ChristianneWhen you walk into a Dick's Sporting Goods and see TRIHARD on the shelf, where do you feel that in your body?

ReiEven now, it's not our biggest channel. Seeing the brand grow online makes you proud. But seeing the product physically on the shelf at the biggest sporting goods retailer in the world, right next to Speedo and right above Supergoop, brands I looked up to as a kid, hits differently. We're in about 800 or 900 Dick's stores, and we're now launching with Academy Sports, which has about 500. Once you have momentum, it's much easier to go to other retailers.

And now we have international distributors, the companies that distribute Speedo in Canada or Arena in France. They take over TRIHARD in their country: the social media, the website, selling in stores. I see the TRIHARD Instagram in French, and I'm not really on top of it, because it has its own distributor. It's growing bigger than me.

ChristianneDoes every day still feel like a high?

ReiEvery entrepreneur has it, all the time. One day you feel like Superman, you can do anything. The next you wake up and think you're the biggest loser and you've built nothing. Polar extremes, one day after another. Even now, when the business is much bigger and more stable, some days I feel on top of the world and some days like a complete loser. I see it with entrepreneurs much bigger than me, too. The highest highs and the lowest lows, one after another.

1:12:00Family, two countries, and his mom

ChristianneDoes your mom ever wish you would come home?

ReiI'm best friends with both my parents, and that's what I miss most. Living close to your family, and hopefully raising my own family near them, is more important to me than anything, career aside. That's what's actually important in life. I'm sure they want it, but they know what I'm doing here and they're so happy to see me grow. They've never pressured me. That's the most interesting dilemma ahead of me and my fiancée: where we'll end up and raise our family.

ChristianneIf I called your sister and asked how you've changed in the last ten years, what would she say?

ReiEasy. She'd say, he's so American now. Israel is more casual. Tel Aviv is right on the beach. The biggest tech companies have offices there, and people go to work in flip-flops, and everyone is tan. When I visit, usually for two weeks, I show up in a button-down shirt and my glasses. By the time I leave, I'm back to my roots. She always laughs at that transition.

1:18:00The dream he hasn't built yet

ChristianneIn 2022 you said your real dream wasn't just TRIHARD. It was to build a school for kids like you, who weren't a fit for traditional school but had so many talents. Do you still have that dream?

ReiI hear it from a lot of entrepreneurs: if the first venture works, the next is more about impact. I see myself doing it in a future venture, maybe the second or the third. But I think it's starting to change without me, with AI and how people learn now: more personalized education, and maybe the realization that school isn't the place to learn certain things. I had a lot of frustration with how one-size-fits-all the education system is, and it doesn't need to be. I wanted something much more hands-on: breaking down case studies, getting young people into internships early, then bringing them back to school to understand what happened. Build, break things, learn quickly, do it again, instead of learning for years without applying anything.

ChristianneIn 2012, at 21, you wrote on Facebook: "I have desires, I want a lot, and the more I want, the more I am never satisfied." You're 32 now. Are you still hungry in the same way?

ReiI'm hungry the same way, because I really love it. My fiancée is starting her own company now, in something she's personally attached to, and I've started to disagree that you need to be passionate about the product or be its consumer. What I'm passionate about is building the business: the operation, the infrastructure around it.

When I was younger, before TRIHARD, the hunger came almost from fear. If I didn't build my own path, it would never happen, because I couldn't take the university-and-employee route. Now I trust myself. I have skills and knowledge, I know how to build. So the hunger comes from curiosity. How big can we take TRIHARD? Can we start acquiring other companies? It comes from a healthier place.

ChristianneThroughout this conversation, your ADHD sounds like a secret weapon.

ReiNowadays I realize it is. As a solo founder it lets me do many things at once, and as a CEO you shouldn't go too deep into one vertical. You stay horizontal: know a little about a lot, bring in the right people, and challenge them well. And I think ADHD comes with some strength on the social side, and business is about people in the end. It helps with raising money, hiring and selling to retailers.

1:25:00Regret, courage, and what 17-year-old Rei would think

ChristianneIf 17-year-old Rei walked into your office today, what would he see?

ReiThinking about the people I look up to, and why, I think he'd look up to me the same way. A guy who didn't take the traditional path. It was complete chaos, and he stayed true to what felt right for him. Still not doing everything by the book, but it's moving and growing. I think he'd say, I want to stick with this guy and see what he's up to.

ChristianneWhat's the question I should have asked you that I didn't?

ReiMaybe the one piece of advice I'd give someone in a similar situation. What led me so many times was asking, if I don't do it, would I regret it? If I stay at McCann four more years and I'm 40 with two kids, would I regret not trying?

And think about the worst case. Worst case, TRIHARD didn't take off and I'd lost my job at McCann. Then what? Will I be homeless? Most likely not. Keep pushing it: okay, I'm home for five months without a job, and then what? Eventually the worst case doesn't shake you. And the best case is, first of all, you never have that regret. I'd rather live in a studio apartment and lose my own money than regret things. So just start. Things get clearer as you work on them. Either it works, or you discover something that leads you somewhere else, or you go back knowing you tried. It's a win-win. It doesn't have to mean raising money and going all in. Take small steps toward it.

ChristianneIs there anything else you want to add?

ReiAfter seven years of TRIHARD, there were times I almost ignored my personal life. I kept my hobbies, but I didn't do a lot of things with my partner, and I didn't go to some weddings I wanted to go to, because I had to be on the computer. Some people say you can only succeed if you work all day long, more than your competitor while they sleep. I don't think that's the only way, and I don't think it's worth it.

So go build, work hard, but also find opportunities to play hard and spend time with good people. Even if it's uncomfortable because your head is on work, build the habit of disconnecting sometimes. In the long run it's healthier, and you don't want to look back and regret only working.

ChristianneDo you regret not going to Shake Shack with your intern class?

ReiThat's a good one. But there were a couple of good friends whose weddings I didn't go to, and I wish I'd been there. Those friends stay with you. You watch their families grow alongside yours. I'd be much harder on myself now about giving up the big life events of the people around me. A year ago I had my laptop out at a funeral. I would never do that now. Maybe I can say that now because there's more support around me and the company is more structured. But at the end of the day, it's also about having fun. If you're not having fun, I don't think it's worth it.

ChristianneRei Lalo, thank you so much for joining us.

ReiIt was really fun. It's the first in-person podcast I've done. Thanks for all the homework you did.